These episodes are recorded as a live Question and Answer Mastermind with participation from agents and investors across the country, and can be found at AllTheLeads.com/Podcast or in the “All The Leads Mastermind” Facebook Group. Thanks for tuning in, and don’t forget to subscribe for future episodes!
TEASER ALERT: We will be recording a special podcast/webinar episode for All The Leads’ Ask The Expert Series next week with an Infinite Banking subject matter expert. This special guest worked as a Medicare Broker before entering the Be Your Own Banker space. With a deep understanding of the intersections between Medicare/Medicaid, Estate Planning, and Real Estate Investment Strategy, this Special Guest is someone you’ll want to hear. Make sure you are subscribed to alltheleads.com/blog to get notified when it publishes.
Bonus Content Published This Week: October 2020 Updates: Social Media and SEO News For Real Estate Agents and Investors : https://alltheleads.com/social-media-seo-real-estate-october-2020-updates/
Episode Topics
For the full show notes and resources, visit https://alltheleads.com/probate-mastermind-real-estate-podcast-299
All The Leads on YouTube: https://youtube.com/alltheleads
Join our free Facebook Mastermind Group "All The Leads Mastermind" now: https://facebook.com/groups/alltheleadsmastermind
Interested in Probate Leads? https://alltheleads.com/probate-leads
Check Out Probate Plus+ (Think PROPSTREAM for Probate Data): https://alltheleads.com/probateplus
These episodes are recorded as a live Question and Answer Mastermind with participation from agents and investors across the country, and can be found at AllTheLeads.com/Podcast or in the “All The Leads Mastermind” Facebook Group. Thanks for tuning in, and don’t forget to subscribe for future episodes!
TEASER ALERT: We will be recording a special podcast/webinar episode for All The Leads’ Ask The Expert Series next week with an Infinite Banking subject matter expert. This special guest worked as a Medicare Broker before entering the Be Your Own Banker space. With a deep understanding of the intersections between Medicare/Medicaid, Estate Planning, and Real Estate Investment Strategy, this Special Guest is someone you’ll want to hear. Make sure you are subscribed to alltheleads.com/blog to get notified when it publishes.
Bonus Content Published This Week: October 2020 Updates: Social Media and SEO News For Real Estate Agents and Investors : https://alltheleads.com/social-media-seo-real-estate-october-2020-updates/
Episode Topics
For the full show notes and resources, visit https://alltheleads.com/probate-mastermind-real-estate-podcast-299
All The Leads on YouTube: https://youtube.com/alltheleads
Join our free Facebook Mastermind Group "All The Leads Mastermind" now: https://facebook.com/groups/alltheleadsmastermind
Interested in Probate Leads? https://alltheleads.com/probate-leads
Check Out Probate Plus+ (Think PROPSTREAM for Probate Data): https://alltheleads.com/probateplus
Welcome to the Probate Mastermind Podcast! These episodes are recorded live once a week and are hosted by the All The Leads.com coaches. Agents, Investors, and Wholesalers join the coaches for everything from marketing tips, sales psychology, live deal analysis, transaction engineering, advanced real estate strategy, and personal development. You will learn to get more listings, more deals, and find financial freedom by listening to these episodes. Be sure to catch show notes at All The Leads.com slash Podcast, and join our free Facebook Mastermind Community, All The Leads Mastermind."
Jim Sullivan:Welcome prosperous agents and investors nationwide . We do have five people in the queue. So let's go right to our first, our first person up this week is five, four, six four you're up.
Eddie V:Hey, what's going on. It's Eddie, Kansas city. I'm doing probate mastery and, I was on the phone call yesterday, but for some reason, Chad couldn't see me. And I had asked the question about, somebody who's losing their house, in a property that was transfer on death to Medicare, contract for deed on the property. So they have somebody living in the house and the attorney for Medicare told the purchaser, the contract for deed, that they should stop paying the person that inherited the house and not to do anything. So anyway, they had hired an attorney who spoke with the attorney for Medicare and basically said, Hey, we can't do anything. Chad, in the Mastermind or in Probate Mastery said without more details, you can't really give anything.
Chad Corbett:I'd I think I understand now. So what it sounds like to me is that you put, they've put a contract in place as a first position lien . Then this person went into longterm care, racked up a massive medical bill. And then the Medicaid lane subordinated that first position. So if an attorney has already looked at it and already spoken with their counsel and says, there's nothing they can do, I would say that they probably should just cut their losses, live there as long as they can and move on. Medicaid is not really known to negotiate their liens, typically with medical liens, like with hospitals, you can oftentimes negotiate those for pennies on the dollar, but with Medicaid and IRS, it's pretty tough. Now there are debt attorneys that. Specialize in negotiating with government entities. If they wanted to try something else, I think the only suggestion I have would be contact a really good, debt negotiation attorney, and have them go after Medicaid to see if they can settle it. Do you know how much the Medicaid lien is for?
Eddie V:The Medicaid lien is for $120,000. Okay. And the property you in that house is about 120,000.
Chad Corbett:They might negotiate it down to 60. Does the family, they probably don't have any other cash.
Eddie V:I think they have cash and they were told that they could purchase the property for three fourths of what was owed.
Chad Corbett:So since they transferred title, there's a rule. If you can find somebody, this is one of the more advanced things we might've touched on it yesterday: You can pay Medicaid that three quarters of what they're due , and the person who steps up to do that can buy a life insurance policy where they are the beneficiary on the insured. For example, if you, this is common with kids and parents, like savvy families will do this. If you move the property over into the kid's name or into trust, whatever it is, you transfer title out of the parent's name that starts a five year window. If they have to go into longterm care and Medicaid as to pick up the tab, you can pay three quarters of the property value. The market value at the time of transfer and Medicaid will release all claims and pay a hundred percent of the medical costs. Now, what you can do to recover that capital is you actually buy a life insurance on your parents and it's, the insured, you are the beneficiary for whatever the face amount that you had to pay Medicaid. So whenever they do pass away, you get your full principal return. And if you want, you can buy a bigger policy and you can actually make money. Sounds dark, but it's just an estate, an advanced estate planning tactic; one that I've used in my own family because it allows you to move assets around and if your parents didn't plan for longterm care and they simply can't afford that, but they're likely to need it, it's something you can do after the fact, because you didn't start early enough in their life. So that's, if you can find somebody that has the $120,000 to step up and then whoever the mortgagor is if that's the kids or the surviving spouse, they could buy a whole life policy on that person. And eventually they would be reimbursed. Now whether the numbers work for them, for the people you have involved or not, that will work if you have the right people.
Eddie V:Okay.
Chad Corbett:Does that make sense?
Eddie V:Yeah, it does make sense.
Chad Corbett:So somebody writes Medicaid a check. It could even be a third party investor. But somebody writes Medicaid check to get them out of the picture. The first stays in position. The contract for deed goes on, the buyer is protected. And then whoever wrote that check buys a life insurance policy on the mortgagor whoever now holds title to that property. And when they pass away, then they get paid back the death benefit.
Eddie V:Got it. Okay. That makes more sense. I didn't know who the life insurance policy was going to be put on.
Chad Corbett:I don't either. And that's, it's, whoever's on title that wrote the contract for deed and holds that first lien position is who you should have the insurance on it. If that person is 25 years old, it's probably not gonna make sense to pay premiums for 40 years for an investor. If that person is 70 years old, it may make a whole lot of sense to do this deal this way. And you can, everybody can win. Medicaid gets, they settle for what they're willing to take your investor gets, it, they would, it would be a long position, but for example, if that was a 70 year old and they bought a whole life policy and, statistically there might be eight to nine years on that investment. just demographically. Then they could buy it where it's, let's say they pay 120,000, but they buy an insurance policy for two 50. Now they have to pay the premiums during that person's lifetime, but they could get a massive return on investment if they do that. And there's actually, it's an advanced development, finance strategy. I've seen $150 million developments built on these type of agreements where you buy life insurance. You're the beneficiary. You give them a cash advance, then you cross collateralize your position to get development financing. So there's a whole world behind the curtain of things like this. It's legit, it's above board. It's just not talked about that often.
Eddie V:Okay. Sounds like I just need to get more details from them to what they want to do.
Chad Corbett:Yeah. And I don't, what state are you in?
Eddie V:Missouri. This property is in Kansas.
Chad Corbett:There is a company in West Virginia, that just does what we're talking about. They walk families through it and help you get the proper insurances and make sure everything's structured correctly. Like there are professional service companies that do just this to help families out of this position. So you can probably find if there's one in West Virginia, that's probably one everywhere. If you talk to some insurance friends, or some savier finance guys, or potentially some estate planning attorneys, they should know what I'm talking about.
Eddie V:Okay. I'll give an estate planning attorney call and see what he can tell me about it.
Chad Corbett:Okay.
Jim Sullivan:Alright, good luck! Get back to us and let us know how it turns out, please. Next up is phone number ending in six, two, four eight.
Joyce:Good morning! It's Joyce Arnston Morris in Orange County, California. I want to tell you that mastery is wonderful, but I do have a. Two short questions. Chad, you talked about the 1% rule yesterday and I don't. find anything in my notes about 1% rule.
Chad Corbett:So it's the way a lot of investors will value rental real estate. As it just a quick measure, I would point you to Bigger Pockets, and put in 1% rule; it's going to bring up podcast, blog posts and forum conversations. And that'll be way clearer than me trying to explain it. It's a simple, quick valuation metric.
Joyce:Oh great. And can you tell me which family members can be in an intra family transfer? I think it's,
Chad Corbett:I really don't know what the limitation of that is. Obviously immediate family is, it's a quit claim is the same as an intra-family transfer. So even if it's not booked as an intra family transfer. It can be booked as a quit claim transfer. So if I were to give them my property to a trust, I would quit claim that out and there wouldn't be transfer tax and my state, and I know like Pennsylvania would charge a transfer tax, but most States don't. So either way, intra-family, I think is reserved fo immediate family. I may be wrong on that. It may go to extended family, but either way, they get the same result with the $0 transfer.
Joyce:Perfect. Thank you so much. See you at 12.
Chad Corbett:Alright. See ya.
Danny:Hey guys, So I ran across someone and I asked him a question, okay, what's been the most stressful thing for you. And he told me that the biggest thing for him is he needs help with the Medicare paperwork. It was new for me. So I wanted to come on here and ask you guys a quick question about like how I could, provide some value and get back to him on like how he can, Basically get that solved that I don't know how to
Chad Corbett:so this is Danny. Have you been through mastery?
Danny:Yeah.
Chad Corbett:Yeah, you can go back and listen to the recording, but that's where social workers can come into play and be very valuable as a team member. There's also an emerging field called care managers and those people can help with that as well. So I would start with just Google social services, your city. And have a conversation with one of the social workers and say, here's, we need someone to help this family with Medicaid paperwork. Is that something you guys do in your office or can you connect me with care managers? And they'll be able to tell you who in town is the best to serve their need.
Danny:Awesome. Okay. Perfect. All right. I just wrote that down. All right. And now give echo shy on that too. I think we do have someone possibly that can do that. Okay, then that was pretty much the only question I had. It was just something new that I ran into the first time.
Chad Corbett:Yeah. Like I said in mastery, it's one of those team members you won't know you need until you need it. And you won't realize how valuable it is until you've used it the first time. And I've helped many elderly people get, basically save them financially, help them from becoming homeless. Your social worker will make a massive difference in the impact you have eventually. So for everybody listening, if you haven't considered that as a team member, you might not need them today, but it won't hurt to go ahead and make that connection because typically when you need them, it's an urgent situation. So it's good to have already established that relationship and understand kind of the scope of what they can do as a member of your team.
Danny:Perfect. Alright, thank you. Appreciate it.
Jim Sullivan:Alright, thank you. Next up is phone number ending in eight two one three. You're up next.
Fed:Hey guys. It's Fed. Good morning. so I wanted to, I want to make sure I reach out to attorneys. And I'm having a little bit of a challenge. I listened to the interview that Chad did with, I forgot his name. He was an attorney from, San Francisco who also a realtor. So usually when you call, you usually get the gatekeeper, so secretary or front desk, and some I'm trying to figure out what the best way to jump that hurdle is since I've called numerous ones asking to you speak to the attorney. And for example, one way I tried is I try to look up the docket number on the leads and, I said, hi, I'm trying to speak to, for example, Mr. Corbett, and then they say, what is this regarding? So it's regarding docket, blah, blah, blah. and I never got a call back. Or I haven't got a call back yet. So I'm just trying to figure out A: What you guys suggest as to how to get through to the attorney.
And B:Perhaps what the conversation is. Cause obviously my, from my understanding doing a mastery and other calls is that obviously we want to make sure that we provide them value and an, and let them understand that we're not calling them just to obtain a listing, but instead to work together and generate a referral back and forth, referral to one another,
Chad Corbett:You're not in Mastery this month, are you Fed?
Fed:No, I'm not, I actually, I've been wanting to come back in a, I'm probably going to sign up back, but, I'm going to do it again. This coming month.
Chad Corbett:So I unpack this pretty lengthy yesterday, there's two main value approaches that I suggest, and both have worked for different personality types and Metro markets, rural markets. You can decide which one's right for you. The first is find a way to bring them qualified referrals. you got to first understand an attorney is a struggling small business owner just like you are, just like every small business owner is. They're unemployed every morning. But unlike us, they have anti-solicitation laws that they have to deal with as part of their code of ethics. So it's harder for them to gain business than it is for us, because we can do these things. we come here and talk about direct mail and hammering the phones and they're not allowed to do that. So they rely on referrals and that's why a lot of estate planning attorneys do probate because it fills in the, the it's just another stream of revenue. They would prefer to do estate planning business because in a couple of weeks they can make a couple of thousand bucks versus making a of few thousand bucks over nine to 12 months.
Fed:Yeah.
Chad Corbett:Think about it from an business owner to business owner perspective. What value can you provide to them as a business owner, quit thinking about referrals for yourself, and you want to open the door with something of value to help them grow and scale their business and make their life easier. One of the best ways to do that is to give them qualified referrals. So the people in your family, the people in your neighborhood, the people in your mastermind groups, your past clients, anyone that you ever worked with in the future: If they don't have a living trust, if they have over a hundred thousand dollars in net worth, they probably should. Because probate costs three to 8% of the gross estate value. A trust for most families is 1500 bucks, 2000 bucks. So it's considerable savings. The hard part is getting those people to think about much less plan for their own demise. So if you can do a sphere of influence campaign, a past client campaign and say, guys, listen, 2020 has given me an opportunity to really take a step back and realize I'm not providing the highest level of service that I could have been all along. So I've added the team member. We now have estate planning attorneys on staff, and I'd like to offer you free hour consultation with one of our attorneys. please let me know, book yourself into this calendar and put a Calendly link in the email. And let them book directly in just don't put your phone number in there. Don't tell them who they're going to be meeting with. That's a good way to gather preset appointments. When you walk into an attorney's office, or I would prefer if you would walk in, but if you have to call because the COVID environment, I understand, but if you call it and say, listen, I'm trying to reach John DOE what's this regarding? Actually I have, I have uh, threw myself into the fire. I've got five clients that need an estate plan, and we helped a lot of families and probate. And we see your firm name and especially John Doe's name. And it just seems like you guys are really active and a firm I could trust. Could you put me through so I could see if we're a good fit? And if they don't they're damn fools. So you're giving him pre-qual, like pre-vetted ready to go a state planning referrals, and he will, no one's ever done that for that attorney and everyone else is like:I'm an investor, I'll have cash. I close quickly. I'm a realtor, look at my listing presentation. Isn't this flyer nice? And everybody's me, And it pisses the attorneys off. Talk to them. They'll tell you, listen, dude, I don't open that damn mail. No one's allowed my receptionist will be fired if she lets realtors come through the line and it's because they're saying the wrong thing, she won't really be fired if she lets you through. She'll be commended for letting you through because you just brought $10,000 in revenue to the business with five referrals. So that's approach number one. And that one takes a little bit more, a little more work and you have to have kind of a sphere of influence built the other approach. It is an exercise that I use for two purposes. One to build your local probate knowledge, the other, to impress the hell out of an attorney and start a good relationship organically. As I said, they have anti-solicitation laws, so they can't direct mail people on a probate list. We know that about 20% of probate at the petition, when it's recorded, they're pro se meaning they're representing themselves. And there's a lot of the misconception that every probate has to have an attorney. That's simply not true. The state of Texas is contentious in debating that, but it's just not true. So that 20% of people take that they think they're getting off easy and not on saving money. Most of them will end up hiring counsel to clean up the damn mess they made before the probate's over. So it ultimately cost them more and takes more time. So it's in their best interest to have legal representation for a. an overly complicated kind of bureaucratic process. We want to get them attorneys. We want to also use that as an opportunity for us to get to know the attorneys so we can approach the attorney and say, listen, we have a team of people here locally that help families going through probate. As part of that, we meet with the clerk every month to make sure we know which families we should be reaching out to. One thing I keep noticing is like 20% of them aren't have no legal representation. And you, and I both know that's a bad idea, right? So also I've come to learn that you're not allowed to directly solicit these people. So I'd like to propose that we collaborate and let me pay for your marketing and let's get these people to the counsel they need. So if you can sit down with me for 30 minutes and design a checklist or timeline, we'll color everything legal in red. Everything my team does in black and your firm name, a website, email address, phone number, whatever you want. will now be included in every mail piece I send. So have you got an hour? Have you got an hour? We can sit down and do this. And they make the time they will go to the conference room. And just like if you can trust me on this and just do this, I've yet to have a single person fail at either of these techniques. And what does, what usually happens is they immediately get divorce referrals. And then shortly after they start getting probate referrals in a month or two, but don't be surprised if you start, if you become a divorce specialist, because you're doing these two things. Almost everyone who does it well ends up getting divorce referrals within a month.
Fed:I'm a hundred percent in! Chad, question hovering above the first suggestion, how you were saying go to go through your sphere and just see who has a net worth, over a hundred and, advise them to get a trust. How do you pitch that to your sphere? Does that know your story or
Chad Corbett:Tell your story. So my name's fed this year has really taught me a lot. One of the things it's taught me, I've helped many families going through probate and I've seen how expensive and stressful it is. What I've come to learn is a living trust is about a fifth of the cost of probate. And in the toughest time your family will ever go through, the court is not telling you what to do. Your family's wishes will be carried out by a trustee. that was told what to do in a controlled environment by everyone. So there won't be any infighting. There won't be any government intervention. There won't be any excessive expense. because I now understand this, I have set up and established my own estate plan, even at 30 years old. My next step is to make sure everyone that I have the privilege of working with has the same opportunity that I did. So I've retained the local legal counsel to give one hour consultation that won't come at a cost to you. It's something my business will provide. And all you have to do is click here to get scheduled. And then the calendar, please give us at least 48 hours notice. You change your Calendly setting, where they can't book within 48 hours. They can only book 48 hours out and beyond. That gives you two days to be the clearing house and get those out. And you might give one to each attorney. You might give five to, you might give one to 10 attorneys or five, two to five attorneys. You'll just have to see what comes back. But if you have a sizeable database and the other thing that I would recommend, you have a blog, you have a WordPress site?
Fed:I do not know. Okay.
Chad Corbett:You have social media for your business? Like you have pages.
Fed:Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
Chad Corbett:I would recommend you write the copy as I just suggested, but you also do a video, same exact thing. Give them more than one way to consume it. Some are going to see it on Facebook and watch the video. Some will see it on your YouTube channel. Some will click the email and they won't click the video to see it, but they'll read the copy. Just do it in multiple formats so you can gather as much interest as you can. Once you've done that. The next step, if you really, if you want to take this to the next level is take the five that actually followed, took your, took you up on the opportunity, established a proper estate plan and had a good experience, and then start doing interviews with them for future content. And if you don't have a blog, it's okay. You can put that on YouTube. You can put that on Facebook as a native video upload, Instagram, wherever, but start getting that word out. Look what this guy does for his past client. It's not going to hurt you and your conventional business. It's sure as hell going to help you in your probate business.
Fed:Absolutely. Thank you. I really appreciate that. I'll start that today.
Jim Sullivan:Awesome. And Chad it reminds me, yeah, whether it's a personal story or one that one of your clients experience, it reminds me of the roleplay yesterday where the roleplay, I think the Danny did, where ran into a guy where he had taken care of his mom for the last 10 years of her life. And she wrote out a handwritten will left it with him. It wasn't notarized or witnessed. So now the court was getting involved in telling him that he had to sell the house and split it up with the sisters that hadn't been there in 20 years. Anyway, it was a difficult story where it was not only going to cost the family a lot of extra money to do it that way. But his mom's last wishes weren't being respected. So as your prospect, you're going to come across stories of that all the time with people that didn't do it the right way. Maybe didn't even file the probate the correct way and use those stories and, the consequences to other people and, and how it affected them as you go through, both the attorneys and the executors.
Fed:Thank you. Thank you so much.
Jim Sullivan:All right. Well, we only have two in the queue guys. Come on that we need our win of the week, hit star six and hit one. In the meantime, we'll go to our next caller, which is anonymous. You're up next.
Patrick:Hey, good afternoon guys. Quick question. Good afternoon.
Jim Sullivan:Is that your real name? Anonymous. Okay. it could be, I'll tell you, but then. Okay, go ahead.
Patrick:This is Patrick.
Jim Sullivan:Hey Patrick,
Patrick:We spoke this morning about doing some of the probate, but also, or wholesaling it, and some of the, advertising to get lease purchase options from the other side. Have you figured a way how to get that done or is it possible.
Chad Corbett:Yeah. My first probate deal was a lease with option to purchase. What you need to be aware of is how title transfers. So if real estate was titled and for spouses or partners, If real estate is titled as tenants in the entirety with rights of survivorship, then oftentimes it's essentially a transfer on death clause. Sometimes that'll re require a spousal property petition, but it'll go from John. John does Jane DOE to just Jane DOE. And at that point, Jane DOE can sign a lease with option to purchase. and that's the very first one I ever did was a surviving spouse. I ended up mailing her off of a high equity list. It was before I was even. It was my second probate, I think. But, it came together beautifully. I was able to meet him. It really works like in her situation. I tell this story in the beginning of mastery, cause it's probably one of the more complex deals I've ever done. And it was a first "aha!" moment. But they needed as much money as possible and they needed it as quickly as possible. So we ended up doing it as a lease with option to purchase, even though it was a free and clear asset because we were able to sell at a premium price, take a 4% option fee upfront and a market rent until we got it closed with no rent credits. We credited back to 4% in closing. And I have a 95% close rate on lease options. If you want it. The only place I've really talked about my system publicly, if you go on YouTube and look up Joe McCall, Chad Corbett, Joe McCall was on the guys that inspired me way back in 2011. When I first got into residential. And, it was an hour or two podcast where I just paid back by showing him, what I did. So you can check out that and Katt can link that in the show notes, but you can absolutely do these. and back in March on our YouTube channel, there's a playlist called shift happens, and episode four will actually walk you through seven, seven distinct, creative financing strategies that will work on these deals. And I show so it's lease wrap. So to a contract for deed land contract. There are seven different strategies that I've used on probate leads. That's about two hours long. It's not, it goes wide, but not real deep, but, start there and then look at that and that'll help you get a better understanding of when you can use which strategy of creative financing and probate episode four of shift happens.
Patrick:Now, how did you, if they're doing Elisa, how'd you get the money to them quickly,
Chad Corbett:So I take a 4% option fee on the front first month's rent and last month's rent. So on that deal, we were able to get a 10,200 bucks on the day of signing. And that was enough money to get her mother out of the hospital and into a rehab. and then, she made $1,100 a month until the buyer's closed, which only took us, I think, six or eight months on that it was a pair of retired Navy, but forgotten to pay utility bill. So they had a 90 day late on their credit. We just had to clear that and we closed. And so we sold for full price, no commission, no. it was no contingencies and we actually did it just to show you how possible this is. It was with a VA loan and we did the VA appraisal before move in. I documented the source of funds on the front end. I documented the VA appraisal and put that in the lenders database. And I had my fingers crossed terrified when they exercise their option and the VA underwriter took it. So we proactively did things. that's, just showing you that today demonstrate even one with a government entity that we were able to get this closed. So it was a probate, it was a lease option. It was done with VA financing.
Ellie:Okay, great. Hi Chad, it's me, Ellie. Here's the deal? Okay. I have a property that a senior needs to sell. She really needs to get out of there, but the property in order to be I'm being telling Patrick, basically to go with the flow and try to do the lease with option to purchase. I have multiple people during this time that don't have the best credit. And it's kind of the opportunity to jump into it. Maybe I'm wrong on that part, but the thing
Chad Corbett:Let me ask you how much equity is in that. Is there equity in the home? The property.
Ellie:Yes.
Chad Corbett:Okay. Is there, are there any debt?
Ellie:How much does she owe?
Patrick:40% equity,
Ellie:40% equity on the property.
Chad Corbett:Okay. So you have a first mortgage at a 60 LTV?
Ellie:Yes.
Chad Corbett:Okay. And what's her urgency. Is it? She needs cash now, or she needs relief from the debt.
Patrick:Pretty much cash now and to a little bit now.
Ellie:And she needs to have some kind of income for her to have the rest of her life. This property next update built in the nineties.
Chad Corbett:You could do this as you could do it as a broker and sell the home as a wrap where they take title subject to the first lien remaining in place. The seller takes a second lien for the other 40% and you get her immediate debt relief and you basically turn the house into an annuity. It's almost like a reverse mortgage, but in her favor, So you're going to, you're going to minimize the tax consequences. You'll give her a consistent monthly payment. If she doesn't need a lump sum of cash right now, if she would rather have more money over more time than less money upfront, then that structure would work if she needs a lump sum right now, you guys can take it sub two. Then you could sell it on a wrap as an investor and take a heavy down payment from one of your poor credit buyers. Give that, pass that heavy down payment through to them, or use that to replace your principal that you gave her. Either way, the wrap will work. It's just one way. You don't have to come up with a lump sum the other way you do. And one way you're acting in brokerage. The other way, you're acting as an investor.
Ellie:You understand?
Patrick:Okay. All right.
Ellie:Thanks you guys.
Jim Sullivan:Alright. You're very welcome. We only have two more in the queue guys. We're still looking for our win of the week. Yes.
Chad Corbett:Who, who set this up as a 500 level class today? What's going on?
Jim Sullivan:No, we haven't had, we haven't had a simple, it's funny the call yesterday after you hung up, somebody from West Virginia said. What's wholesale. What's probate. The most basic question we ever had, these are really in depth, the complicated questions today. Hey, we're here for whatever you guys need help with. And there's over a hundred of you on the call. We're still looking for our win and we only have two more in the queue guys. So we got plenty of time left, hit star six and hit one in the meantime, next up is phone number ending in one, four, four, seven. You're up next. Are you there are Youngstown, Ohio.
Caller:I'm sorry I had you on mute. That's okay, go ahead. Yesterday regarding one of the role plays that was done, it was really good. It dealt with, two brothers. they worked in a restaurant and servers. They needed to sell the property when one brother wanted to live in it. The other one wanted to sell it. Do you recall that one? Yes. Okay. All right. My question is apparently they didn't have. Cash available. and the house, if they were to sell it, there were some things that needed to be done on roof and miscellaneous other things, titles. I think my question is if the descendants have ready and available funds, How do they get the repairs done or you're supposed to be the people that, take the ball and run with it and show them how to get things done. But where does the money come from? L
Chad Corbett:Lots of different ways. Katt, remember to link this in the show notes. There's a tip from the trainer posted. I did a couple well years ago. That's five ways to basically fund improvements, I think is what it was. so I'll spare you that you can watch that. After this, if you go to all the leads.com and search five ways to creatively finance repairs, I think might've been the name of it. Post. You can use a contractor by turning them into a lender. So typically a contractor is going to be cost plus 15 cost plus 20. You can allow them to add a premium to their invoice, 10%, usually reasonable and standard so they could make cost plus 25 on this job, they would carry the invoice through to. The closing. They have three layers of protection. They submit an invoice to escrow. They submit an invoice to the court and they're authorized to record a mechanics lien against the asset. So there's three different ways. I can three different layers of security for them as a lender. And you give them a premium. That's why I tell you to find contractors who are running a business, not working a crappy job. These are the guys that have cash reserves, very professional business. They typically have strong cash reserves. They're oftentimes they're flipping houses, holding their own rentals, these kinds of things. You can even do things with local real estate investors, pawn shop owners. The we buy gold guys. We buy junk cars. We buy mobile homes depending on what ground work at your end. These guys, these are all they're they're high yield debt investors. So most people don't think outside of the box, I think, Oh, a pawn shop guy. He's he's not, he's just a savvy small business owner and he's providing a service that's needed in that community. So they typically are flushed with cash. They're looking to make short term high risk loans. This is the safest. if someone's going to advance a thousand bucks on a Ford Mustang, what is it like with, at an appreciating asset? And you give them an opportunity to make 10% on their money, on an appreciating asset where if you screw up or someone screws up, they double their money. That is a, one of the best deals ever. So you can look at other investors and cash, rich people in your market and your sphere of influence, the easy button way. Is you simply go to an estate advanced company, the preferred partner that after two years of vetting these companies, we finally found one we're comfortable with and it's probate cash. So probate cash compound, no space. And if you go to all the leads.com again, the top, right where you can, if you're listening to this after the fact, you can see it in the show notes. Okay. just search probate cash and it'll bring up a, an ask the expert series that I did with the two founders of that company back in, I don't know, July, I think. so that's three there's five on that video, but those three ways, the other ways are you can get a HELOC. You could also do a reverse mortgage. If it's a surviving spouse situation, those two would work. You can use more conventional methods, but. there are a lot of different ways you can do it. I would suggest watch that blog post to watch the probate cash thing. And, you'll have more than one arrow in your quiver whenever you encounter this.
Caller:Wonderful. Thank you.
Chad Corbett:The one that I didn't, the other one is you turn yourself into a JV partner. So if you see that this house needs 50,000 work and it could sell for 150,000 more, you have an opportunity. And I would say you have an obligation if you ha, if you are an investor and you know how to do fix and flip, you can step up, establish a basis value for the assets today. Form a fresh LLC, a joint venture, a limited partnership, or a land trust and address the basis value and the control of sale. In that instrument, whatever your attorney's comfortable with, you go bring your contractors in. You pay for the construction and you get a higher listing commission on the way out, which is above the net. And then whatever's left after you're paid your commission. Whatever that net is, you guys split 50 50, so you can create another, an additional$50,000 in equity for the family and an additional $50,000 in revenue for your company. It's called flipping a free house.
Bruce:I'm going to throw in there, Chad and mention another way for the agents or investors. it's specifically probably for the agents who don't have the cash to do what you just mentioned. Most of us have clients. that are sitting on cash and they want to be in the real estate space, but they don't have enough to drop into a flip or maybe they're just there, they're waiting. And for example, I have three or four people that, will fund up to 20,000 in repairs under the same terms that you just mentioned, Chad, I'll take a higher commission. That's my fee for quarterbacking, the repairs, the upgrade. and then they'll take 50% of the, the gain. So there are lots of ways to do this. Even if you don't have the money or don't have the pawn shop relationships. We have clients all over the place that have a little bit of extra money and want to be involved in real estate investment in one degree or to one level or another.
Caller:Okay I wasn't
Jim Sullivan:Awesome. I feel compelled to mention something, Chad, you said this is a 500 level call. If there's anybody on this call that is brand new and has just decided that this is all way too complicated. There's a good chance you'll go your whole career and never use any techniques we've talked about. The beauty of taking mastery is you can make a deal almost any situation, but the vast majority of probate, 90, 95% of them are just motivated absentee owners. They want to cash out. So don't, if you don't understand anything we've said so far, don't be intimidated. These are very, the advanced techniques that we're talking about today. Good to happen in your quiver. You understand that,
Caller:Okay, good. No idea. And I hadn't, I wasn't thinking outside the box.
Bruce:Yeah. Perfect. I'm to, I'm going to throw in one more time. Cause what started this part of the conversation was the role play yesterday, where we went, where we were taking Danny down a pain funnel. And if you guys didn't listen to the roleplay, go listen to it from yesterday. that particular example. Was a good opportunity to not only find a way to fund repairs for, for a client for a personal representative, but it was also a great opportunity. if you're an investor to go down the pain funnel, dig into the pain, dig into the need. And make an offer. it was clear on that role play call that, that Danny was not going to be able to, fund some of these repairs himself. So if you don't have the relationships that you have the means to be the investor, Except asking better questions and accentuating that pain, just position the PR to be in a position it'd be in a place mentally where they're ready to actually let the property go as an investment.
Caller:Okay, great.
Jim Sullivan:Perfect. We have two more in the queue that should take us nicely up to the top of the hour. Next up is phone number ending in seven seven, seven, seven. You're up next.
Angelique:Hey, my
Jim Sullivan:name is
Angelique:Angelique. I'm
Jim Sullivan:in Tampa,
Angelique:Florida. It's my first time actually on the call. And, you are talking about, actually a gentleman was talking about approaching attorneys and you gave him a nice spiel, but I wasn't able to write anything down because I was in the car. Is there a way as the, you're able to share that the, the, the information email or anything.
Chad Corbett:So these are always recorded and archived. So you can find this as soon as tomorrow on our Facebook page, on our website, alltheleads.com or on your favorite podcast platform. Oh, on Facebook. Where's it at? it's an, all the leads mastermind has our private Facebook community. We have a, we syndicate to almost every major podcast platform and you can always go to all the leads.com and, in the menu at the top, you'll see the complete system and you'll see role play and mastermind archive, and their every single call we have close to 700 hours of these conversations archived there. Okay. And you said all the leads.com and I'm looking at the website right now. where is it supposed to go even? I'm so sorry. so if you go to yes, and YouTube is the other place I forgot to mention. so if you go to all the leads.com. You'll see in the top menu, you'll see ATL success systems and the third or fourth button down thing is this like second or third button down. You'll see mastermind and role play conference archive. There's a podcast player at the top. The most recent call will be shown in the podcast player. Or you can go down and click into the year, the month and the specific call. Okay. Remember the Facebook community, be sure to request, to join all the leads mastermind. There's about 11,000 of us in there. And then also on YouTube, be sure to look up all the leads. You'll be notified as soon as these calls are published.
Jim Sullivan:Perfect. Next up is phone number ending in four seven zero one. You're up next.
Ryan:Hello. Can you hear me okay?
Jim Sullivan:Yes, sir.
Ryan:Great. So my name is Ryan I'm from, Pennsylvania Philadelphia area. so I'm looking to buy this house that is next door. The original occupants owners, passed about a year or so ago. And at the time it is a year, their children walked away from the house. So really just I know how to get in touch with the kid. there doesn't sound like they had a will when they passed, so I'm not sure what the next step is on how to approach them on, getting this house
Chad Corbett:Well, it's very likely to have to transfer through probate. Have you done the research on the home? Is it as, are there liens against it? Are there any mortgages?
Ryan:Only one mortgage and it's several months behind. Okay. You know what the balance is? Is there equity in the home? About 8,000
Chad Corbett:The balance is 8,000 or the missed payments are 8,000.
Ryan:The payments
Chad Corbett:are 8,000 behind. How much equity do you think is in the home?
Ryan:Probably a good 70,000.
Chad Corbett:Okay. So what you're going to have to do is make contact with the kids. If they haven't petitioned the court for probate, they need to, you might want to call and introduce yourself to the probate clerk and get familiar with the local process first. Then when you make contact with the kids, yes. Speak confidently. And they will trust that you're going to guide it them through and connect them, get them phone number, email address, office address, and even directions to the office. Once inside the courthouse, go the extra mile before you pick up the phone and talk to the kids and I've had to do this before. A lot of families just, they just check out and they just walk away. And I've had to take people to the courthouse and help them petition for probate so I could help them. Because that's the first step in the process. Someone has to have the authority to sign the purchase agreement. So one of the family members, or one of them, one of the family members have to step up or a fiduciary has to be appointed a public administrator. And the first step in that is petitioning. Whoever's going to step up needs to petition the court for probate. Once that happens, you can make them, you can sign a letter of intent with them now to just to protect your position. But once they had the letters testamentary, then they can sign a purchase and sale agreement and you can see, I'm not sure in Pennsylvania, if you have to have court confirmation, you may be able to just go ahead and close. You may have to submit that to the court for confirmation.
Ryan:Okay. Her transferred title.
Chad Corbett:unless the house, it sounds like they have enough equity. They're not going to qualify for the small estate exemption, so they will have to probate the estate. And that's the only way you're going to transfer a title. And I would say time is of the essence on this because the equity is just getting chipped away a day at a time, So that's why I'm suggesting you. Proactively basically hand it to them on a silver platter. Don't make a suggestion to bring a solution.
Ryan:Okay.
Jim Sullivan:All right. Get back to us. And if you need any help, offline, just reach out to us and get back to us. Let us know how it goes.
Ryan:Alright, thank you.
Jim Sullivan:Alright, next up, Chad, do you have to leave for mastery? Are you good? No, Mastery's at three today. Okay, good. We have two more in the queue. Then next up is seven four, two eight.
Dave:Oh, Hey guys. I was just calling real quick. I had a old lead I, that's where I'll leave. I decided to do a text message campaign on, just to see if I get some response. I did get a couple and one in particular was very interesting. It's the reverse of what you typically think. she wanted nothing to do with talking on the phone. She wanted a text. And then went at it more as an investor
Jim Sullivan:offering to buy, see
Dave:if she would be considering we'd consider an offer on the property. She said, sure. she kept pushing for a price. And so I threw something over, and I think, I just needed to get on a call with her or zoom or something. Her initial response actually was, a little bit suspect. I want to meet you in person. and I said, I'm remote and zoom call. And she's no, if you're interested in sending an offer, go ahead. And, so now it's stalled out. I gave her a number. She said, send me pictures of houses like mine you bought at that number. I guess I'm wanting to really understand before I put a whole lot more time into she's really looking to sell or she's just dragg ng me along. It's a little bit of a concern.
Chad Corbett:Is this on Brevard County, Dave?
Dave:It is. Yup.
Chad Corbett:Do you have someone that can go by and meet with her? Let me ask a better question.
Dave:Is she in I haven't gotten there. Apparently. She must be if she's wanting to meet personally, she's got to go in her life, phone number and, yeah, I've never come across this one. I'm assuming she is there because of that admission.
Chad Corbett:You have a contractor on the ground?
Dave:I do. Yeah.
Chad Corbett:I think what I would do here to get her attention, because she's probably shopping you as my opinion. And I'm sure I'm telling you what, you already know. You don't have rapport and she's trying to hold you at arms length because she's afraid you're going to take advantage of her based on the experience she's had with somebody else.
Dave:Sure.
Chad Corbett:If you can get your contractor over there to meet with her or caretaker and he can do a video. And then I would overnight her, or at least send them a priority express envelope, a legitimate purchase and sale agreement with a fat earnest money deposit. Are you going to close on this one?
Dave:Probably not. I got a couple of buyers straight there that are ready to go.
Chad Corbett:Okay. A trick that I've used and situations like this pump the earnest money up because everyone else was offered a hundred bucks in earnest money or 10 bucks in earnest money. So if you can show her in good faith, you had a guy go over there, you looked at it. You're not bullshitting her. you have had a partner put eyes on the house and give you a construction estimate and you can enclose that construction estimate so she can see that it's legit send her a purchase agreement. with everything, but the price filled in. and, put a post it, note on it and say, I've done my research to let you know I'm serious. And then I, that I, and, she'll see an earnest money deposit, let's say 50,000 bucks, or maybe 20,000 bucks make it surprise her, but I wouldn't go over 20% in case a guy's using financing. you don't want to have to deal with that. So maybe 20% earnest money. And then just ship it off to her in an unconventional way, like a FedEx overnight, or a USP S express priority. And you can just on the post it note, just say, I don't know how to finish this without talking to you. So please call me when you're ready to speak and put the ball in her court and show her that you're serious, that you're gonna, you're willing to step up and you have already, and you'll probably get a call back cause no one else is doing that. I bet.
Dave:Okay.
Chad Corbett:The other thing that if you don't get a response and, in addition to that, the other thing you can do is have your contractor take a Manila envelope with him and seal it and tape it inside the front door where it can be seen from the street. Neighbors will be calling her saying, Hey, someone posted something on the house. there's this yellow envelope. Should I go get it? Do you want me to get it? Do you have a key? And you'll get her attention that way too.
Dave:Okay. Good stuff. Thank you. Yep.
Jim Sullivan:Last step is phone number ending in one seven five nine. You're up last.
Stefan:Hi, I'm Stefan out in Northern California. I'm just getting started on the weekly calls after sending out my letters. And the last, I did about 20 calls, yesterday. And, about 50% of the leads, the numbers have been disconnected and the email addresses are no good. And I'm, since I'm just starting, I'm not sure. Is this normal or is it is a COVID because I noticed the death date on a lot of these leads is back in March or April, and I'm just getting the lead, now, That's quite a delay between the time of the passing. me getting it, getting the lead.
Chad Corbett:Sure. We're at the mercy of the court on that. So there wasn't much we could do as far as the numbers, like that's an extremely high rate of disconnected numbers. Typically, we have 80 to 90% accuracy and connectability on our numbers. If you could email support and let us know which specific list you're talking about, what we'll take a look at it and see, if we can figure anything out about it, it may just be the nature of your area.
Jim Sullivan:Chad, I was just going to ask, is it the second, third and fourth column of numbers? It's mostly disconnected or is it the first and second? Have you noticed?
Stefan:Oh, I usually start at the top with the first number and then I work my way down and usually it is the first and second number. A lot of times that are disconnected. Okay. Yeah, so many people are, abandoning their landlines. So there could be part of it, I just connect to my landline in my house cause they never use it. I just use my cell phone. But, that might be part of it. I don't know. But I was just wondering, cause I'm just getting started. So yeah. So I thought it might be unusual and it's probably partially due to the virus thing going on with the delays.
Chad Corbett:I'm really curious if it's because of kind of the economic uncertainty and people trying to preserve as much cash as possible. I wonder if a lot of people have started to shut down landlines. Cause it's just one expense they've been thinking about getting rid of, but this was finally the last straw and they said we can live without it.
Stefan:Yeah, that could be part of it. Cause I know there's a lot of them, after you've been in sales for a number of years, you can start recognizing. A landline, They looked different than cell numbers. I thought one, I could send a letter to the people who I couldn't reach the phone and just say, Hey, listen, I tried to call you, but your line, your numbers disconnected. Did you get my letter?
Chad Corbett:Yeah. If you're not, you should be sending letters to all of them. If you're not doing that, you're definitely losing a lot of opportunity.
Jim Sullivan:I've got to say also that there that makes the win. If the first and second are disconnected, it really makes that third, fourth and fifth phone number more valuable because probably most people aren't going to go the extra mile. It might be a relative of the person you're trying to look for, but. I would call all the way through all the numbers and see maybe if you get better success with the, what, the ones that are related to them. And Chad said, yeah, do send them letters also.
Stefan:So how often, would you say send the same letter again in a different letter? Switch frequency?
Chad Corbett:Ideally it's, with direct mail and probate, it's more about being there when they're ready. Some will be ready immediately. Like the day as a day after filing, there'll be ready to sell. Others will take two to three years. And in your market you have long judicial backlogs right now. I mean there's people waiting three and four months just to get to their next hearing. so they've been. Paying, paying for the property insurance and all the caring expenses and everything. So it's a lot of those older ones are even more motivated now. And a lot of the newer ones will become highly motivated after they sit around and do nothing for several months. So all that said, if you have a budget to support it, you should be marketing for at least a year. if you really want to do well with this and extract every bit of opportunity, stretch it out the two years, we found a lot of success of the 24 months. You can get a pretty decent conversion rate. So it's what your budget will support. But I would, as a absolute bare minimum is three months of letters. One letter per month for three months on each one, followed by a phone call. But ideally like our most successful subscribers, they're continuing to mail until they've spoken to everybody. They're continuing to call until they've spoken to everybody. And there's no surprise. Those are the people that are in seven digits of revenue with this one single strategy and one single County. Huh. All right. good take. Yeah, I guess I'll probably, what do you think about, I don't know. I think maybe I should send a different letter every time I thought that I tracked pretty meticulously my first 12,000 pieces of mail. I had six return to senders. I had about a 2% conversion rate and most, all the letters that are available to you. I was shuffling through doing sequences, Doing the same one over and over, and it really didn't change it wasn't, it was barely measurable the difference the content on the letter. It was more about the time that it got there. It just went on when they're ready and they will call. And, there's a common theme between all of our letters. I'm not proposing that any old letter will work. I'm saying that the letters we've provide to you guys have, are backed by. Tens of thousands of dollars of button, budgets to prove they work. So it doesn't, as long as you're choosing it from that, from our letter, poor mailbox motivated all of those work and they've all worked in various types of markets. So don't overthink it. And, it's I found ultimately after doing this for awhile, what worked for me best was to send the same letter three times on autopilot and never looked back. And I was able to maintain 6% conversion rate over time, sending the same letter over and over because by the time a month passes and they've gotten letters from other people, they don't even recognize the redundancy, but. When they're in the right mindset and they get your letter and see the contrast of that to all the other ones, they don't even need to remember. They've seen your letter before. They just need to know that you're different and they're going to call you first and probably only you.
Stefan:Alright. Okay. thanks. I appreciate that.
Jim Sullivan:All right, sir, we appreciate you. Anything else?
Stefan:No, that's it. Thanks.
Jim Sullivan:All right, guys, that you are the last caller of the day. I want to thank each and every one of you for being here today. I want to particularly thank those who actively participated. I want to challenge each of you. Take one idea. One thought, one thing that inspired you on this call, go out and put it into practice and come back and share the results with the group. Next Thursday, stay healthy, stay productive, and we will talk to you. Same time. Next Thursday. Take care, everybody.